tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post3391070579890372197..comments2023-12-13T16:57:33.142-06:00Comments on Blogodidact: Looking Heirarchy and Lowarchy - (REVISED) (And then whittled down some more) What Are Words For Part 3Van Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-13502826264315331132007-01-22T00:52:00.000-06:002007-01-22T00:52:00.000-06:00What is the difference between paper & PC? I don't...What is the difference between paper & PC? I don't know, but when I printed it out I gasped and whacked a 1 & 1/2 pages out of it & reposted again.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-57902487596523631562007-01-21T22:40:00.000-06:002007-01-21T22:40:00.000-06:00Joan of Argghh! said... "My eyes! Make it stop! Ki...Joan of Argghh! said... "My eyes! Make it stop! Kill the italics tag!! Argghh!!!"<br /><br />Pshawww! italics tags? Luxury! Why when I was a child, we lived in a small shoe box in the middle of the road, and every morning our father cut us in half with a bread knife!<br /><br />Joan, I think there are only 3 italics, and they are wee little bairns. You do have my sympathy on the meetings though. Ugh.<br /><br />Still though, you shouldn't let work come before blogging you kn... eEE-Ouch! Don't throw bottles at me!!!<br /><br />Sheesh, touchee, touchee, touchee.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-56512323043608067082007-01-21T22:26:00.000-06:002007-01-21T22:26:00.000-06:00My eyes! Make it stop! Kill the italics tag!! Argg...My eyes! Make it stop! Kill the italics tag!! Argghh!!!<br /><br />Dang it, now that you've updated, it's been so long I hafta start at the beginning again. And I have three days of meetings ahead of me. <br /><br />Thanks, though. something to look forward to ... for later.<br />:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-33434036720474888502007-01-21T13:23:00.000-06:002007-01-21T13:23:00.000-06:00Yo ho!Yo ho!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-10324047975857980842007-01-21T13:21:00.000-06:002007-01-21T13:21:00.000-06:00I finally found some time to revise this - I maxed...I finally found some time to revise this - I maxed out the hours work was willing to pay for & they sent me home friday & for the weekend. Ahh, that felt good. Finally a snowstorm that I can go out and play in with the kids!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-66104373038818677072007-01-20T14:16:00.000-06:002007-01-20T14:16:00.000-06:00All work and no play makes Van a dull, dull, blogg...All work and no play makes Van a dull, dull, blogger!<br /><br />I think we should all follow Bob's lead and just become slackers, fit only for contemplating the Cosmos. <br /><br />Yo,ho,ho, It's a Raccoon's Life For Me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-89061686625567717012007-01-06T01:02:00.000-06:002007-01-06T01:02:00.000-06:00Thanks Ben & Joan. Yes I did say I'd fill in the b...Thanks Ben & Joan. Yes I did say I'd fill in the blanks in the next post, but I was referring to the details of how we make, store and relate specific identifications, which I thought would leave me with a manageable post - fact was it ended up being 15 full pages in Word... so I whittled it down, and... lopped off a finger or two in the process.<br /><br />Neither Socrates nor Jesus wrote their ideas down, they spoke and lived them. Interestingly, the works of Confucius too are only the collected saying attributed to him, but not written by him (though it seems as if he did actually write some of his ideas down, they did not survive him).<br /><br />Even Plato valued the verbal exchange of living ideas over the studying of written words (he just couldn't bear the thought of his and Socrates' ideas being lost). Aristotle’s teaching style was called the Peripatetic school, because his classes were often spent walking and talking, not reading and writing. Debating was an idea that also was central to the teaching method which instructed the Founders of this country in how to think for themselves. <br /><br />This may not be historically accurate, but I've wondered if graven images could also extend to once living words, made lifeless by the written word being kept flat on the page as static images memorized and regurgitated, rather than brought alive on the tongue in debate. Interesting that that was one of the first methods jettisoned by the pro-regressives.<br /><br />Interesting also, that money, especially paper money, has a similar tendency to be made into static objects as well; values unto themselves - forgetting the concept that they are only convenient tokens for real values produced. The dollar bills are worthless without such earnings backing them, and that understanding is so easily lost on a public fooled with the slight of hand of the printing press. Graven images, indeed.<br /><br />I'm getting to it. Although my project is at crunch time & I'll have to work tomorrow too, I hope to clear this post up this weekend, and be well on the way with the next as well. <br /><br />Argh... the time - to bed. Thanks guys.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-71117459032760649502007-01-06T00:17:00.000-06:002007-01-06T00:17:00.000-06:00Thanks Joan.
I believe I understand what you mean...Thanks Joan. <br />I believe I understand what you mean now.<br />I missed it the first time, and should've picked up on it.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-310300865511860322007-01-05T22:06:00.000-06:002007-01-05T22:06:00.000-06:00I'm aware that the admonition against "graven" ima...I'm aware that the admonition against "graven" images is about worshiping them. But it rolls together with Babel, communication, and identification. <br /><br />The inseparable idea of a thing so fully reflected in a representative stroke of a pen, chip off a block, or snap of a shutter has an allure that could make the less vigilant subject to false worship. We speak of painting with words, we thrill at the 23rd Psalm's, "yea, though I walk..." It is so vivid that it is literally birthed in us.<br /><br />We are warned about what we put before our eyes, and I guess that would include words. <br /><br />How wise of Jesus to have never written his words down with his own hand, lest we would have worshiped them instead of their Truth. To have merely heard them, they had to vividly grab the attention with the concept, not with the well-turned art of grammar and tense, but with a moment, a vision, a connection that has lasted the millenia.<br /><br />Powerful stuff that those in the dark arts have likely studied more than the children of light. It is good that the Logos should live apart from static letters and words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-57163210290000616492007-01-05T01:49:00.000-06:002007-01-05T01:49:00.000-06:00Excellent post, Van, despite some of the incomplet...Excellent post, Van, despite some of the incomplete thoughts that you will edit in.<br />I thought you were saving the rest for the next post.<br />As for graven images, I was under the impression that God meant worshipping images/idols that isn't God is wrong.<br />Or, as Van put it (paraphrased), divided truth's, single disassociated items/pictures/thoughts, bound not by order but rather unbound by chaos.<br />I see this lesson in money, for example.<br />Having money, liking money, and using money isn't evil, it's the love of money, elevated to the point of worship that is evil.<br />If I'm off-base please let me know.<br /><br />I hope you feel better soon, Van.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-85125799881618224242007-01-03T21:01:00.000-06:002007-01-03T21:01:00.000-06:00Yesterday I woke with some virus that knocked me f...Yesterday I woke with some virus that knocked me flat with fever and a stomach emptying from both ends... all day long. So home in bed shivering, shaking and dashing... naturally I think of tackling a tough post that’s been plaguing me. I didn't want this to be an extended series, so I tried to condense 3 full posts into one, and I think there was too little of each left in the post to get across what I wanted to.<br /><br />This part which I left out I think bears on what you commented:<br /><br />"These babies, prior to learning words, do they still form concepts? Yes, simple ones, but simple thoughts are the root of the more complex built upon them. So what do they use to ‘label’ their concepts with? What do they have? Visual, auditory, smells, kinesthetic impressions more likely – Christmas Trees, rain, hugs, humming, cold, warmth… though later the main access method for this root thought will be with words, I think those identifications and relations will live on past the coming of words."<br /><br />Perhaps a part of what makes it possible for seemingly casual touch points, a word, a scent, to spark intense thoughts, moods, inspirations... and the type of process that the folks in Corp. Marketing try to work in reverse with Icons...? <br /><br />But part of what you mention as “yet so utterly frustrating at times” is convincing ourselves that only words will give us access to our thoughts.<br /><br />“But someone can carve an image, take a photo, paint a moment and wordlessly we take it in like a moonlit marsh at midnight.” How does symmetry, in form, sound and thought, become so key to our thoughts? Something Ximeze mentioned elsewhere about paring down to the simple essentials must be involved somewhere….<br /><br />Anyway, I think that trying to toss it all in, meant shorting each piece, so I'll have to combine some patience & editing skills and go again... look for the revised!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-60280730469838368182007-01-03T18:21:00.000-06:002007-01-03T18:21:00.000-06:00Van,
Icons are the formulaic shortcuts of communi...Van,<br /><br />Icons are the formulaic shortcuts of communication, much like the glyphs of the ancients. To convey so much, not in a string of letters, but in a single image, is really how we learn and grow.<br /><br />E=mc2 is nothing more than a simple iconography for a very advanced set of logical insight.<br /><br />However, they can quickly become outdated. The "wait a moment" icon of Windows Explorer is the image of an hourglass. What person below the age of 40 has ever used one? In fact, our waking existence is one big set of minimal icons, denoting larger truths beneath them, if you will.<br /><br />The successful image of a company is reduced to a commercial logo. The CEO wants to convey in a glance everything he and his 2,000 admin employees, 50 engineers, 100 researchers and 500 manufacturers have strived to create. No small task, and yet, the Bell companies have mastered it, for good or ill. The globe thingy, with the lines? How hard was it to move folks from the "Bell" logo to the "global point" logo? Yeah, I'm dating myself here.<br /><br />But it always has intrigued me, this art of conveying a world of meaning in a simple Nike swish or a floating Window.<br /><br />Our computers are full of icons, pathways, and information that is conveyed in the simplest and yet most condensed moment possible. We take it for granted because we have been trained to access both sides of our brain more completely and quickly by these simple images.<br /><br />My favorite series for learning a new language is the "See It and Say It" books. They don't teach you to translate for understanding (though there is minimal translation for purposes of self-teaching), but rather, they teach one to think in that language from the outset. It is a most successful way to access both sides of the brain for a more "sticky" result that stays in the brain.<br /><br />Women naturally excel in this, not being hampered in the dual-access mode of thinking. We can access both sides of the brain, merging the thing that is heard with the logos. <br /><br />Men, having been awash in hormones in the womb, have this axis of thought erased. They are physically divided in their cerebral hemispheres, which means that in order for something to stick, it needs to "hit" both sides of the brain. Visual creatures that they are, they need word pictures in order to fully assimilate the entirety of what is being communicated.<br /><br />That's why a woman should always seek to use some sort of mental word picture with her emotional outreach in conveying a problem. Make it logical, and yet "see-able" by the man, and you will have achieved what many women cannot: an emotional connect that will stay with him.<br /><br />That's not denigrating or sexist, that's just smart communication.<br /><br />Icons are some of the smartest forms of communication, perhaps the quickest, too. Our Western linear tradition is so beautiful and yet so utterly frustrating at times. We pick it apart, we search for etymology and history, double meanings, lapses in tense and imperfect tense. But someone can carve an image, take a photo, paint a moment and wordlessly we take it in like a moonlit marsh at midnight. Not with words, we just <i>inhale</i> it, if that is possible.<br /><br />So, why the admonition against graven images (which photogravure surely is) in the Old Testament? What did our Creator know about our hearts, when it comes to communicating so much? Why the confusion of Babel? God seems to have a history of jumping into our communication with dire warnings of small rudders and great fires.<br /><br />Hmmmm...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-63551957920313604862007-01-03T12:20:00.000-06:002007-01-03T12:20:00.000-06:00Relax. Breathe!
Hey, just so you know, I read thi...Relax. Breathe!<br /><br />Hey, just so you know, I read this about 2 a.m. my time. I went back to bed around 3, thinking of all you are trying to convey.<br /><br />No time to go into it just now, but for me, it led to icons and idols, graven images and commercial logos. More later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-30643536746480521472007-01-02T21:33:00.000-06:002007-01-02T21:33:00.000-06:00Oh, I think I still tried to squeeze in too much.....Oh, I think I still tried to squeeze in too much... a little too feverish perhaps... looks more like it'll be 6 posts than 4 - will revise later - sorry 'bout that. <br /><br />9:28 PMVan Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com