tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post3854710426311114355..comments2023-12-13T16:57:33.142-06:00Comments on Blogodidact: The 2nd Amendment meets Saul Alinksy's lucky number #13 - Part 1Van Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-34345064593602157742013-01-23T07:41:31.688-06:002013-01-23T07:41:31.688-06:00It was a bit wide of the mark though. And I sure d...It was a bit wide of the mark though. And I sure don't have the time to do much more now, but this kind of sums up our situation today:<br /><br />"<i>I have a hard time stretching the definition of militia to include just Joe Schmo at home. That is the wall I run into mentally.</i>"<br /><br />And I don't direct this towards you, or even the left, but at 'our time' altogether. Something distinctive to our me, me, me orientation of the last century (and where was that learned from?), is that we tend to see 'Individual Rights' as being specific to 'Individuals' alone, as if they had no connection to '<i>We</i> The People'.<br /><br />Through that lens, the 2nd Amdt has come to be seen in terms of <i>Self</i> defense alone, and dismissed from consideration, is the responsibility we owe to our selves as a people in community with others, and to our mutual defense.<br /><br />That Joe Schmo in his basement, should not be alone with his gun in his basement, he should be, to some extent, coming together with others in his community, regularly, 'drilling' (not the right word, but all I can find before the 1st coffee's downed) together. And not least of reasons why is so that the other Schmo's might notice that that particular Joe needs perhaps a closer eye upon him, and so he knows that they know it.<br /><br />BTW, that isn't something, IMHO, that would be proper to legislate, it either comes from the people themselves, or it would be warped into something even worse. But the fact that it is so lacking, or that where it is, is seen as a bunch of toothless schmo's with the Deliverance banjo soundtrack in the air... is a big, big problem we have.<br /><br />A people of 'individuals' each of whom sees himself as being separate and independent from their polity, as an island unto themselves, is not an expression of Individualism, but of pathology.<br /><br />Wish I could say I'm not guilty of it as well.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-25950103964475212792013-01-23T00:03:26.158-06:002013-01-23T00:03:26.158-06:00Thanks for addressing my question, Van. I look for...Thanks for addressing my question, Van. I look forward to reading more. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973448750714819716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-44147240580759292972013-01-22T23:01:08.127-06:002013-01-22T23:01:08.127-06:00(cont.)
And with a glance at my hot-button concern...<br /><br />(cont.)<br />And with a glance at my hot-button concern, education, perhaps if We The People were less concerned with 'training' and more concerned with Education, an education concerned with making one actually Educated, rather than fit for the workforce; less concerned with feelings & more concerned with right and wrong, maybe then kids and grown ups would be more habituated to acting on whether or not something was right or wrong, rather than acting on what they felt about this or that latest frustration or slight to themselves. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.drmartinlutherkingjr.com/thepurposeofeducation.htm" rel="nofollow">MLK was concerned about that that as well,</a><br />"<i>...A great majority of the so-called educated people do not think logically and scientifically. Even the press, the classroom, the platform, and the pulpit in many instances do not give us objective and unbiased truths. To save man from the morass of propaganda, in my opinion, is one of the chief aims of education. Education must enable one to sift and weigh evidence, to discern the true from the false, the real from the unreal, and the facts from the fiction. <br /><br />The function of education, therefore, is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. But education which stops with efficiency may prove the greatest menace to society. The most dangerous criminal may be the man gifted with reason, but with no morals. </i>..."<br /><br />,<a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22419684/transcript-obamas-inaugural-address-2013" rel="nofollow">As oposed to Obama (and most recent presidents and 'educators'):</a><i>"...Together, we determined that a modern economy requires railroads and highways to speed travel and commerce, schools and colleges to train our workers...."</i><br /><br />If you want <i>real</i> safeguards against gun violence, it has to start there.<br /><br />And if you don't know, it doesn't take a lot of googling to determine that gun control laws simply <i>do not work</i> Can they really make you feel better... if they do not work? See Chicago, and every other high crime area with numerous and restrictive laws against weapons... oh... and against crime as well. Doh. But you don't need these statistics, the thought is foolish on the face of it, and has been clearly so for centuries. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.constitution.org/cb/crim_pun40.htm" rel="nofollow">An early penal reformer, Caesare Beccaria said,</a><br /><br /><i>"The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to prevent. <b>Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance?</b> Does not the execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear to mankind and to the wise legislator? and does it not subject the innocent to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty? It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons."</i><br /><br /><br />Argh... sleeping... will address better later.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-54514900121906241392013-01-22T23:01:03.246-06:002013-01-22T23:01:03.246-06:00Lance, that's a good question which I'll a...Lance, that's a good question which I'll address more fully in the next posts, but as a quick answer, sorry if this is scattered, it's late and heading to bead. I'm even too tire to take the cheap shot joke upon your comment, at your expense, that is just itching to pop out... maybe later ;-)<br /><br />One thing to keep in mind, is that the 2nd amdt was not a bone thrown to the people so they could feel safe from burglars and hunt some squirrel. The 2nd amdt was created with the idea in mind of establishing and keeping the people as a ready threat to the federal govt, should it attempt to overreach its powers. The muskets, and especially the ones with the new rifling that the Americans had lately excelled at making and using, were the high tech murder machines for their time. They were, quite literally, assault rifles. And they, amongst others known, and aware as they were of how technology was quickly changing weaponry, arms yet to come, were placed in We The People's care, via the 2nd Amdt, and out of reach of the govt.<br /><br />True, they expected the people to form up in militia... but the militia was to be formed from the people, using their own weapons, and a militia that could not brandish the scariest of weapons, would hardly be one that could act as a check upon the ambitions of the federal govt, could it? <br /><br />I quoted from Justice Story's commentaries in this post, where he was concerned that the people were becoming impatient with maintaining themselves as a well regulated militia, meaning meeting regularly and training, keeping 2 wks supply of food and ammo at the ready at all times... he was concerned that their becoming lax at that would lead to complacency, inattention and a gradual dribbling away of their right to bear arms, a right he and most others, considered to be The most important of their protections.<br /><br />But because we have become lax, is hardly an argument for becoming still more lax.<br />(geez, only I can try to dash off a quick reply and end up over 4,000 characters. break)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-29465255025565393662013-01-22T11:38:41.942-06:002013-01-22T11:38:41.942-06:00Thanks, Van.
Ok...here goes nothing. My main is...Thanks, Van. <br /><br />Ok...here goes nothing. My main issue with the gun control and 2nd amendment question is in the wording of the first four words. "A well regulated militia" <br /><br />When I see that, I think of a person who is actively in their states National Guard or in the USA's Military. Then it makes sense to me that they would have or could have a gun at home of the AR-15 variety or greater, if they desire. That works for me in a logical sense. Because they are actively part of a group whose job is to defend us. <br /><br />I have a hard time stretching the definition of militia to include just Joe Schmo at home. That is the wall I run into mentally. I have owned in my life both handguns and several shotguns for both home defense and for target shooting. Those types of guns make sense to me. The bigger guns do not. It doesn't mean they are wrong to own. But that is my hangup. <br /><br />So there you go. That is my position on the whole 2nd amendment gun issue. I hope that mad some sense and I am trying to be clear about my thinking as I am still processing my thoughts on this and trying not to be some "aaaagh, ALL GUNS ARE EVIL. THROW THEM IN THE FIRE." Liberal. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973448750714819716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-13467087410757668782013-01-22T07:28:00.718-06:002013-01-22T07:28:00.718-06:00Ah, thanks Patriot Soul, blushing.Ah, thanks Patriot Soul, blushing.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-4598332447521771432013-01-22T07:26:19.628-06:002013-01-22T07:26:19.628-06:00Lance, you are my goad friend from the left, and n...Lance, you are my <i>goad</i> friend from the left, and never a nincompoop.<br /><br />The nincompoop was the aninnymouse from the <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2013/01/jay-carneys-vicious-blood-thirsty.html" rel="nofollow">Jay Carney post's comments</a>.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-24685013051999582152013-01-22T00:29:44.571-06:002013-01-22T00:29:44.571-06:00I posted this on Tea P Patriots...let's see if...I posted this on Tea P Patriots...let's see if I get a discussion going THERE!<br /><br />This is critical stuff!<br />If I knew you were so wise when we were handing out pocket constitutions door to door, I would have certainly tapped in!<br />But I do not know if I was wise enough to do it at the time!<br />My how we have grown!<br /><br />:/<br />freespeakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05484071124659559646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32362551.post-34973372282324877952013-01-22T00:14:22.384-06:002013-01-22T00:14:22.384-06:00Which one am I, 'friend, leftie, or internet n...Which one am I, 'friend, leftie, or internet nincompoop'?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973448750714819716noreply@blogger.com