Sunday, May 20, 2007

A Nation of Immigrants vs A Nation of Laws?

The problem we find coming from the immigration situation is not from immigration itself, but from the related corruptions to our fed & state gov't's which feed it. Thomas Sowell or Frederich Bastiat or Walter E. Williams, and more, have given reams of examples and information on how one 'isolated' instance of tampering with the free market, ripples disruptions outward, which prompt compensatory actions which themselves cause more compensatory ripples to spread chaos even further.

To lift a few instances out of the mix at random, minimum wage law, health care rules, public schooling, social services... and on and on. These cause enough problems and conflicts within the regular citizenry, market & gov't interplay all of it's own. But worse, they also cause what should be a highly valued result of America being America - immigration, to be twisted into a visible focal point for each of these corruptions of our political structure to be displayed for us in harsh flashing neon.

There is nothing more valuable than people (the "Ultimate Resource") - qualified as people who do understand the value of liberty and freedom, seeking to come here and practice it in their lives. A non nanny state gov't, such as America predominantly was prior to the 20th century, was it's own immune system, drawing in only those willing to take a risk on their own skills and abilities to earn a livelihood and better the lives of their families. On the whole, immigration, on the melting pot plan - learn the language, learn the founders political philosophy, adopt the culture, work hard & get ahead - this was America's secret weapon from the founders time on, and on the basic principles, even from the 1600's and Jamestown, on.

All of the Nanny state, regulatory, gov't mandated policies and services that have been implemented, to mark a fuzzy line, from Teddy Roosevelt, from that time on, and amplified with the Warren Court decisions, have served to undermine and corrupt that lifeblood little by little, until now what should still be a supreme value for us, is a raging infection.

My personal view on immigration, in an uncorrupted gov't, would be to open the doors and welcome them in, only being sure to take their names, make sure they are not spreading disease, are not felon's, track and ensure that they are becoming good Americans, and on to the next issue. 911 modifies that to put a tighter, more in depth focus on the taking of names, background and tracking, finger printing, reporting in, etc, but the rest still holds.

It even holds for those from Mexico or Canada who want to come temporarily to earn some money and return home, again, with emphasis on the tracking and law abiding parts. There is only benefit for us and them - as long as the qualifiers are in place.

Anyone who flouts our laws should be unceremoniously given the boot, and never allowed back in. Period.

The difficulty we have now, is separating those coming here to take a risk on their own skills and abilities to earn a livelihood and better the lives of their families and so on, from those coming to take advantage of public schools, 'public' health care, welfare, etc.

The problem isn't immigration, that is only where the real problem is too visible to turn away from. The problem is that we have allowed progressive, socialist, postmodern, multiculturist 'ideas' to corrupt our system, and ourselves - until they are taken care of, neither the immigration or other problems are going to be taken care of.

Until we again have a free market, and a gov't governing within its proper bounds, we will not have an uncorrupted populace. To dream otherwise, is but to dream.

For the moment, I think that all we can hope for (probably vainly given the mushiness of our congress on the issue) is an effective background checking, identification and tracking system for immigrants. An insistence that they show proficiency in the language within x number of months, and that law abiding behavior be absolutely required, violation of which results in permanent expulsion. And as strict a monitoring of the borders as is feasible, and with unquestioned shoot to kill force being authorized for those patrolling it feel is necessary to their own protection, and jobs.

***

In short, if we see the issue with immigration being in conflict with our laws; when we are at root A Nation of Immigrants, and A Nation of Laws, then we need to look at the rippling set of laws that have prompted that split. If you do, I think you'll find that a great deal of the laws which were passed in the 20th century, are laws that must be passed away. Soon.

21 comments:

walt said...

Van, I agree with all that you say. I would only add that, while we wait for your suggestions to be implemented, this country is being systematically and intentionally destroyed.

Van said...

Walt,
Sadly, that is obvious too. For the moment the best we can hope for, is "effective background checking, identification and tracking system for immigrants. An insistence that they show proficiency in the language within x number of months, and that law abiding behavior be absolutely required, violation of which results in permanent expulsion. And as strict a monitoring of the borders as is feasible, and with unquestioned shoot to kill force..." for INS, or whoever the heck they are now.

As for those here illegaly... at some point, when all possible boundaries of reason have been transgressed... there will be, will even need to be, a 'Man on Horseback' (as the founders termed it) solution. Cold, unfair, probably brutal. We dangerously fool ourselves in thinking 'we wouldn't do that here' regarding police-state like actions. We don't do that here, for Reasons, which we hold dear.

Remove those reasons, and all hope for them, and the restraint is removed as well. Those attempting to kick the issue down the road under cover of amnesty - for and against - are edging us towards that day.

walt said...

Van -

Okay, I lied; I will say more.

If you are inclined to pursue this, hop over to hughhewitt.com.
Hewitt is a former attorney, and understands the law. He has attempted to read the new, proposed legislation, and decipher it. See what you think of his analysis, and opinions. See what sort of opinion forms about the type of people that would write such a law, and then try to force a quick vote on it. Your reaction might be very different from mine, but I can tell you, mine wasn't good.

Government as friend? When I encounter government, I seldom experience "a friend." From today's news: when the tornado leveled that little town in Kansas recently, townspeople could not return. FEMA went in to do their thing, and while they were at it, confiscated any and all firearms they found amidst the rubble. Easy enough to imagine a rationale for this...uh, except that Federal law specifically prohibits such acts. How often does government just do as it wishes?

I know: I sound anti-immigrant, and like a gun nut. Neither are so, at all. It's the actions of government that scare me.

I recall a small section in Atlas Shrugged (forgive me the details; it's been decades) where there is dialogue about a huge oak tree that has died, and the characters were amazed that something so massive and strong and dominant could actually be dead; but one of them replied that it started with just a few branches, unnoticed at first, and then spread, and finally killed the tree. Sound familiar? A metaphor for our times, it seems to me. Of course, as a former nursery guy, I've also seen such things. Ayn Rand, for all her human foibles, had great in-sight.

My opinion? We live in a deep, psychic sleep much of the time, and much akin to dreaming. Coons see some Light, and move toward it. Most other folks, good/bad-right/left proceed in degrees-of-dreaming, everyone spinning their own version. And politicians are true bottom-feeders, because they have the power to impose their dreams on others.

I think your post is a pretty coherent statement about the overall problem. This comment is not, particularly; just some additional aspects.

Van said...

Walt said "A metaphor for our times, it seems to me. Of course, as a former nursery guy, I've also seen such things. Ayn Rand, for all her human foibles, had great in-sight."

Yes she did. I've read Atlas, and all the rest she wrote and lectured, several times over - well worth each reading.

She was often asked if it was too late to turn things back, and her reply was "Not as long as we have freedom of speech - if that remains, then there is reason to hope for improvement.", and I think that is correct. Her heir, Leonard Piekoff, frustrated in a Q&A from someone demanding "Revolution Now!", responded with "Revolution How? Suppose we were somehow numerous enough to take over - then what? Unless the Public understands and is familiar with the Founders thinking, any change will be temporary at best." You can't pass a law or point a gun and order people to 'Think sensibly! Now!'

It must start with discussion and education. Engaging in discussion with those who pay no heed, or lean left is where the fight must take place at this point in time.

I'll take a look into Hewitt's info, but from the little I've already seen of the latest bill, I'm sure it's worse than worthless.

At this point, the best we can do is stick our fingers in as many holes as we can, let our representatives know where we stand and expect them to; work to elect more conservatives (probably, but not necessarily Republicans); and call the lefties on their arrogant public leftist comments and assumptions Especially at family and neighborhood gatherings!

Call them out for the fools they are - not wackatrolling, but firmly, calmly and clearly point out their error and demand a sensible response. They will either errupt or cave, and either way, will educate the rest that there is an alternative.

Yes the Gov't has gotten too big for it's britches, not only at the Fed level, as you cited, but go to a school board mtg, and see how they assume they can do whatever they want!

It is offensive, it is sickening, it is disheartening, but it is only that. Seriously. They've got bluster and no more, and people are waking up to it. Yes college prof's subject their students to their lefty rantings, but more and more students are snickering at their foolishness.

Ayn Rand was right - as long as we've got freedom of speech, there is hope. People are snickering, because they are finally being exposed to other views that the MSM/Gov't bedfellows were able to keep suppressed for the greater part of the 20th century.

Even those who lean left are snickering at them. The 'Colbert Report' had some affirmative action blowhard on a while back, and made her look a complete idiot by just stating clearly what her words meant. The audience was roaring with laughter, and even she ended with "I have no idea what I mean". That more than much else, gave me hope. Humor has been one of their most effective weapons against American values, next to College Prof's, I think the sitcom has done more to corrode Virtue than anything else. If the left is losing it's grip on that too, their end is coming.

It's been changing the last 12 or so years, and talk radio, bloggers, the internet is making a difference.

Fight back with laughter in their face and facts and reasoning ready to finish them off. The world has always been on the point of collapse, and always will be, but as long as we don't 'Shrug', it won't either.

Van said...

Sheesh... a post within a post!

;-)

USS Ben said...

Outstanding post, and comments by the very wise Walt and the Teacher, Van!

Van-
When you wrote:
"She was often asked if it was too late to turn things back, and her reply was "Not as long as we have freedom of speech - if that remains, then there is reason to hope for improvement."

I thought about the current "hate" speech laws, as well as McCain/Feingold's effect on the First Ammendment.

These corrosive bills are the foundation of the leftist neverending agenda of evil to destroy free speech!

There's actually been debate in Congress to limit and ban bloggers and talk radio because the leftists are angry that they can't compete in either market.
Some may say that bloggers aren't part of the market but they are.

Bloggers are (at least) in the market of ideas.
And not just any ideas. There are some bloggers who advocate Principles and Absolute Truth.
Bloggers have been instrumental in breaking news, and, more importantly, correcting the lies, omissions and cover-ups from the MSM, politicians, and "sellebritease".

There are those, now in government, who seek to stop the truth and the Truth from getting out to the public. To everybody.
Particularly (for now) political speech, but certainly it will expand, with the help of "hate" speech law, to incude regulation of our very thoughts.
Mostly they are Democrats that want this but there are some Republicans that want the same thing.

We must do everything in our power to prevent that from happening as well as the erosions of our right to bear arms.
Because if the left are successful, then America will become just another European socialist country, decaying from within.
Blemished lambs ripe for slaughter.
America will die.

Coons aren't about to let that happen without a fight.

Van said...

USS Ben said "I thought about the current "hate" speech laws, as well as McCain/Feingold's effect on the First Ammendment."

Ben, I was actually thinking about that very thing as I wrote that, and -

"There are those, now in government, who seek to stop the truth and the Truth from getting out to the public."

Yes, they'll trot out their reworked fairness doctrines as well, and 'hate speech' codes, and the bills to limit grass roots movements that (Susannah? MizzE?) pointed out last week, and on and on and on.

Keep on your Reps, let 'em know you aren't buying it. And I can't say this seriously enough - Laugh at them! Out Loud! In their Faces, and worse, explaing why what they say is worth nothing more than a laugh. There are few things more damaging to an empty but puffed up head or movement than derisive laughter.

Of course they'll try, piling on the effort, and doubling & trebling that, to stamp out any vestige of free speech, because they know that will kill them as well as we do. But if we keep up the attack, they'll collapse under their own vacous and foolish weight.

And like the Berlin Wall, I think their fall will come sooner and more unexpectedly than any of us imagine.

Van said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Van said...

Walt, I only made it through a few of Hewitt's parts you linked to - it's as bad or worse than I thought.

Call or email your rep's in the house and senate - let them know you ain't buying it.

Border enforcement, preferably fenced. Identification. Tracking. Law abiding behavior or sent packing. Period. Any bill without those is less than worthless.

walt said...

Van -

I've heard that there are 2 things you just DO NOT want to see being made - sausage, and legislation!

Glad you at least bounced around Hewitt's site, and got the "flavor" of the sausage being prepared for this country by our esteemed representatives. Glad also that as of this A.M. the whole affair is being increasingly called "a disaster" by many different sources.

Your energy in dedication to the Truth, is very appealing (well, not to trolls), and I only wish there were more with your outlook.

Ricky Raccoon said...

Van, Walt, Ben,
Hear, hear.

My hope is that this bill goes down like the Dubai ports deal. Not by “why” it went down, but “how” it went down. The people brought it down.

Ricky Raccoon said...

I just can’t figure out the President’s thinking on it…
It will likely undo all the good he’s managed to do.
The only thing I can grasp for is that he believes it will be DOA in the Senate and House….and that he wants us all to see that happen…a furious debate in the Congress.
I hope.

Ricky Raccoon said...

Van,
Your OC comment… my heart goes out to you and your family and friends.

Sal said...

Van,
I linked to this and deleted my own post on the subject, which was rather ugly. It was bitching about the symptoms, not the disease.
Thanks for putting it out there so clearly.

The people who want to believe that old-style immigration can still work in the present situation have the best intentions, I don't doubt. But a refusal to look at the facts won't do here.

Van said...

Ricky Racoon said "The only thing I can grasp for is that he believes it will be DOA in the Senate and House"

I know what you mean, but I'm afraid he used that chit up with McCain/Feingold.

Bush is a good man, but too often when clear, even stark responses have been needed, he's tried to play nice on the issue. The article that JulieC linked to the other day, Bill Whittles seems very relevant here.

There are limits, and they should have been... were clear, very early on.

Van said...

Thank you Sal -

Ricky Raccoon said...

Van,
I agree.
I’ve been following Bill Whittle’s latest. Ordered his book.
The Remnants concept reads as if it was about me…and so really means us. So much synchronicity reading it. But can a Remnant know he’s a Remnant? I know I feel and think like one…or rather alone like one, but for my fellow ‘coons of course. We all seem to have converged somewhere at nearly the same time and place.
For now I’m watching to see how Bill’s idea goes. My earliest thoughts about it were that it was too “design by committee”. I see the value of hearing all input but (for now) it seems too much. And a little too much emphasis on style, look and feel. But it’s early…

What was the particular article Julie linked too? I may have missed it, unless you are talking about his latest posts.

Van said...

Ricky,
Actually I just finished the Whittles "Remnant" posts (pr I & II) this afternoon. I enjoyed all the main post, especially his description of the 'Prisoner's Dillema' - lost of interesting implications there.

I'm not so sure about the virtual community, but seems to have quite a number of folks interested in it - which is great.

I suppose it'll be something like that 'Virtual life' online thingy? Not my cup a tea, but it was sure giving a number of people a virtual-raccoon experience, and that can't hurt. I don't see it as being all that different than the blogosphere, but to each their own Remnant ;-).

(Oh, that was the article JulieC ref'd)

Van said...

sigh. 'lost of interesting' of course should have been 'lots of interesting'

Alan said...

(This ain't from Alan Mack)

Hey Van:

I'm popping over from OneCosmos. I hadn't (a) realized you had a blog and (b) that you had an objectivist background.

My kids are going to a great school founded by objectivists (part of their teaching philosophy is that elementary kids are not ready for philosophy) and they are getting the best education I can imagine.

Your comments about your transition into OC coming from your background were interesting because of the complementary nature I have seen in my view of religion and Objectivism (to a point). Both see the transcendent value of man - I just see the world view that Bob talks about having more "head room" vertically, shall we say.

Anyway, now you've gone and added more reading for me with your interesting writings (adding to my rss reader now!

Van said...

Alan said " Both see the transcendent value of man - I just see the world view that Bob talks about having more "head room" vertically, shall we say."

Yep, I agree with you there.

"My kids are going to a great school founded by objectivists"

If you say that's VanDamme Academy, just watch me turn green with envy (but a nice shade of green)!